Meet Nora
Nora is 21 years old. She loves her family and is excited to start her own. She been married for a little over a year and is expecting a baby boy in October! She grew up in Carson City, Nevada. She is pursuing a Bachelor of Science in Animal Dairy and Veterinary Science at Utah State University in Logan, Utah; She plans to finish in December of 2019. The past year she has been part of a research project studying reproduction and fetal development emphasizing epigenetics as it applies to nutrition. Depending on the results this research could potentially be applied to human fertility. Nora has a lot of hopes and ambitions. One of the main ones being to have a small farm operation. She is still considering working, but she has a spark in her soul to be able to stay home with her baby.
Nora can be contacted on instagram at @nora_christensen or in the Facebook Community. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Shownotes
Mady interviews Nora Christensen about her experience as a young mom. They also dive into feminism and their own definitions of what it means to be a feminist. Nora details her experience in an abusive relationship, her struggle with anxiety, and birth control. *TW - sexual and emotional abuse will be discussed starting at 26:10.* If you or someone you know is experiencing domestic violence, please seek help. National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233. See below for a complete transcription of the episode.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________ TranscriptionMady: When you were here visiting we got talking about what you’re doing in life right now and it led into some really cool conversations. So do you want to start out by telling us what you’re doing right now? Nora: Sure. I’ve been married for a year, and I’m pursuing a bachelor’s degree in animal, dairy, and veterinary science, and I’m doing research with epigenetics, so reproduction and fetal development for animals and I love it. My husband and I just got a puppy and his name is jack. Karl just got a job in denver and I can graduate in December. Mady: You’re relocating this weekend right? How’s that going to work because you’re going to college in utah but he got a job in denver and you graduate in December. Nora: We’re just making it work. We both feel good about his job, and I'm determined to finish, so he’s helping me finish and we’re making it work. We’re also expecting in October which is important. We’re having a baby boy. So I’m going to finish out the last semester of school. Hopefully I can work with my professors ahead of time and make it work. WE’ll move for the summer and then I’ll come back and finish. And he can work remotely. His job is working with him because he’s been so forward. Mady: I’m going to rewind a bit. You were 20 when you got married. Can you tell me what it was like deciding to get married young? That doesn’t sound crazy to me because I was 19 when I got married, but For most people they probably think that’s pretty young. Nora: I met Karl when I was 18 and people thought I was crazy. But I wouldn't trade it for the world. That’s where I could start. As soon as I met him, I could tell it was different than any other boys I had dated. And it wasn’t that I knew right away. I just knew that we were good for each other and encouraged each other. And then the longer we dated the more I could see us together forever. We started talking about marriage pretty quickly and it just felt good. There was a lot of pushback because I was 20. People asked if I really knew what I was doing, if I knew him well, I hadn't dated him long enough. But I felt like I did and I was confident in my decision so we just went with him. And my parents and his parents were supportive which was helpful. Mady: All that unsolicited advice is so real, from every direction. You didn’t get pushback from your family, just other people. Nora: Definitely. Once my parents met Karl they were a lot more supporting and that was helpful. They were definitely skeptical when I started dating someone because I had this plan lined up and I wasn’t going to date anyone until January of my freshman year, and that isn’t how it worked. I met Karl the first week of college. Mady: That’s me too. I met my husband the exact same way Nora: It was my freshman year and Karl didn’t want to steal my freshman experience so he wanted me to date other people. We kept going on dates but I dated other people for about a month which was really helpful to decide. I just felt even more confident in my decision and confident in Karl and in us. Mady: I think a lot of people don’t want to get married until they’re established and graduated with a job and can afford a home. How do you feel about that? Nora: That’s an interesting question. I think the best description is that life is never going to be perfect. Everything isn’t going to fall into place. But I’d rather go through life with Karl and be married than without him. And all the adventures together are even better than if I did them by myself, or even if we were just dating. Mady: I get that. I think it’s very old fashioned when people think they need to be able to support a family by the time they get married, especially when it’s the guy who wants to be able to support a family, but the other partner probably is also doing the same thing. So why does it matter? Nora: I agree. It’s two of us right now. We had a 5 year plan. We didn’t want to have kids originally for 5 year. We have a studio apartment, and we don’t need a bunch or things, a fancy house, or a lot of money to be perfect and have a family. Neither of us were even graduated. Mady: Ya, and you get there together. It doesn’t matter if you’re not there yet when you get married. It doesn’t mean you’re not going to do it at all. It just means you get to do it together. Nora: And we push each other and help each other along. Mady: So you think your experience being married enhanced your college experience? Nora: Definitely. I think a lot of people worry about the social scene. But we just go and find couple friends. We still go to the games we still do things together and find adventures. It’s just always together! I have my person! Mady: Yes, and you have someone to bounce ideas off of. I know I had about 5 meltdowns a semester over things like “Am I studying the right thing? What if I don’t pass this test?” You have someone you know and you trust and can bounce those meltdowns off of. Nora: That’s exactly how I feel. Mady: You’re due in October. So how did you get from your 5 year plan to being pregnant and having a baby within 2 years of marriage? Nora: It just felt right. We’ve been going through the motions. Karl graduates pretty soon. He’s working on defending his thesis. He got a job in Colorado, so we’re going to move there in the summer. I had had a plan when I first went to college. I didn’t want to get married until maybe my junior or senior year. Then as soon as I was away I realized that wasn’t my own mindset. It was a similar thing with the 5 year plan. I felt like we needed to be established and I had a list of things that I had heard and that people tell you about things you have to have in place. Like you need to know who you are before you have kids. I don’t feel like that’s the case. Being married kind of qualifies you to be a spouse. You learn and you grow together. So I’m hoping it’s the same thing to be a mom. I definitely don’t feel ready. But it feels right to start a family. Mady: I think you worded that so well. So you’re graduating in December, and you’re having the baby in October. Was there a part of you that wanted to put off graduating? Nora: Yes. It was both directions. I felt so strongly that we needed to start trying to have kids. I’d never felt that way about anything. So I was like, well maybe it’ll take a while! It took my mom a minute to get pregnant, so maybe we’ll just start. The timing didn’t make sense. It was about January or December. We ended up getting pregnant right away. We were fortunate in that way, but as soon as I got pregnant I had to decide if I should stay in school or postpone a semester. Right before we got pregnant Karl got the job in Denver. And he can’t stay there while I stay here. It’s doable and an option, but I think the biggest comfort is that I’m so close, I’ve developed relationships with some of the professors I have this semester. I know my work ethic and I know it’s doable. People say it’s crazy and ask me what I’m thinking, and I considered taking online classes and switching to a similar major because everyoone was saying it was so hard. But I was like wait - I can do this. Mady: When people say you can do this or you can do that they’re just pigeon holing. You don’t have to just do the baby thing or just do the school thing. Same with marriage. You did school and marriage. And now you’re doing school and marriage and baby because that’s what works for you. Nora: And I think it’s the same thing with working or staying home. My mom killed it and she worked. I felt like I had her support at home, but she was a working mom and I loved that. I love having that background. Mady: I imagine for you it gives you a boost if you decide you want to work because you’ve seen it happen. It was probably cool for you to see your mom doing something that she loved and pursuing career success while simultaneously being an awesome mom. Nora. Definitely. Mady: When you were here last and we talked about this we talked about your plans post-baby and if you planned to work or continue school. I started opening up to you about my own feminist journey and you and Karl told me about you feel like you’ve actually felt personally like feminists are against you. Because if you were to decide to stay home you feel like feminists oppose that. “Women can work - so you should work.” But on the other hand you feel pressure from women that you know and love in situations similar to yours who are saying that because your husband has a good job and since you’re able to stay home, you should. Most women wish they had that opportunity, so you should take advantage of it.” And you’re getting this pressure from both sides. How are you dealing with that? Nora: That has been honestly one of the most frustrating things of the whole experience. It’s hard to differentiate what are your own thoughts and what are the things that other people are saying. You had said last time we spoke that one of the definitions you like of feminism is that it inspires women to be better. I really like that part of it. But I do feel like I struggle with it sometimes. Maybe I just don’t see myself identifying or marching with feminists. And that’s honestly what comes to mind when I think about it. Maybe I don’t understand the movement completely, but mainly I feel like it just leaves me out. My mom worked, but as I’ve gotten married and done all that, I feel like I want to have a small farm and do some entrepreneur work on the side, and then mostly stay home with my kids and my family. I feel so good and am so excited about. Mady: I love that you’re so happy in that decision. This is I think so common. The reason why I got into feminism is because I was going through this existential crisis, where, literally, I went into education because I wanted to be a mom. I thought if I took education courses I would be better prepared for child development and child raising. I figured I would want to work and if I worked at a school I would have the same hours as my kids which would be perfect. So I went into education for the sole purpose of being a mom. But then I went through this crisis about 2 years ago where I wondered if I even wanted to have kids. We have been married for about 5 years and I’m not sure if it’s even on the horizon yet. So why did I study education? Do I want to stay in it? And I was trying to figure it out. I wanted to hear stories from women who had figured out how to do both - career and family and see if it was possible. And because my background is in education, I know how it important it is for babies to have someone at home with them, which added even more pressure. And I was the one putting pressure on myself at this point. So as I was trying to hear stories from women doing this was feminism in general, where the overarching idea is that women should be able to do what they want to do. So the feminists that are out there telling people to work, or not get married, or not have kids, they’re not being real feminism. Feminism is having the freedom to choose. They’ve taken it so far the other way - where because women can work they have to work because it’s their right. But no - we’re lucky enough that we can work, but our right is that we get to choose. Nora: I love that. I think it’s so important to hear the women of stories doing both. I definitely agree with you. And it’s so important, and to hear both sides of it. I think all women go through. It seems like such a straight shot and some people would disagree, but men feel like they just need to provide for a family. And even if they have a crisis they’re driven to a career. But for women they could do either. And that choice being your own is what’s going to make you happy. I really like that. Mady: When I was going through this it was almost like I was mad that women were the ones who were expected to stay home. But the more I dove into it the more I saw that you could do it however you want to do it. You don’t have to have kids, you can have kids, you can have a nanny, you can co-parent, your spouse can stay home, there’s no right answer. It’s just whatever is going to work for you. Nora: And like you said, you didn’t want kids at all. That’s how I was when I started school. I started in engineering because it’s the “smart” degree. People told me I would be a good mom or since I like animals I should be a vet, but I’m going to do my own thing and this is what’s smart. But then in the first semester I was like, these are not my ideas. Why am I doing this. I don’t like this at all - even if it does set me up for the perfect life, it’s not what I wanted to do. Mady: You’ve said a few times now that the things you've initially pursued are not things that you’ve even wanted to do. You thought you wanted it because you’d heard it so many times. And I feel like that is so true for so many aspects of life where people are pushing us to do something and it’s so hard to differentiate between the pressure and your own thoughts. It sounds like how you are able to differentiate was you just started pursuing something and then if you didn’t love it and it wasn’t you then you went back to what was you. Nora: That’s exactly right. You talked about your husband being your biggest supporter. I love your definition of feminism as the freedom to choose. That’s how I feel because I feel like my brother and dad and husband and my mom are all my biggest supporters. So I think I get frustrated too when it feels like feminists attack men. But feminists can elevate men and women. Isn’t that the goal? Mady: Totally. You don’t even need a uterus to be a feminist. You don’t have to be a woman. You just have to want women to have the freedom to choose - just like we want men to have the freedom to choose. I wouldn’t have considered a feminist when we first got married. That’s been more recent identification. But we have a lot of open communication and when I started getting into it he’s been getting into it with me. It definitely can be both ways. Nora: I like your perspective and just wanted to hear it again! Mady: You’re so sweet. It’s annoying though because since it is such a big part of my life I want to talk about it all the time. I identify as a feminist and my husband does, but when I bring up feminism or even just say the word feminist around people who aren’t used to hearing that word they get very defensive. It’s frustrating because it’s this beautiful movement of support and community but it gets a bad rap from people not doing it correctly and media not fairly representing feminists. It drives me nuts. Nora: I agree. It was interesting after we spoke and Karl and I left. We probably talked about it the whole drive back. He was like, “What do you think about feminism? They had such an interesting perspective that I’ve never heard before!” I think it’s hard for some people when you bring it up. I can totally get behind the movement but it’s hard when it’s so misconstrued and when people feel like it attacks the men in their lives. And that’s definitely not the case. Mady: There is so much baggage around that word. And it goes beyond just being man haters which a lot of people think we are. Because feminism was started by wealthy white women, they were the women that had representation because they had the resources to have a voice in the 1900s when this was getting big. So they were advocating for themselves and their own situations. But their situations were very different than for example black women in America at that time. Some people have perpetuated that and kept it the same. It’s understandable that that’s where it started because they were the ones that had a voice. But now around 100 years later it doesn’t have to be like that anymore. But people still have those notions. When I first started identifying as a feminist it was almost a confession. It’s kind of embarrassing because it has so much baggage. I love that we’re talking about it so hopefully people listening can relate and recognize it for what it is and not just ladies with hairy armpits who are yelling at men. Nora: I think it gives a lot of encouragement to women. Mady: The more I get into it the more supportive I am in my relationships with other women. The more willing I am to be informed on issues affecting other women. It’s changed my journey completely which has been really cool. Nora: That’s awesome. TRIGGER WARNING: SEXUAL, EMOTIONAL, MENTAL ABUSE FROM AN INTIMATE PARTNER Mady: Let’s switch gears a little bit. So you’re doing awesome right now. You have everything planned and ready to go, and you’re happy and life is good. But I just learned when we were discussing this episode that in highschool you experiences som sexual, emotional, and mental abuse. It was very shcoking for me because I felt like I knew you pretty well. We saw each other every week and church, and mid-week sometimes, and I had no idea that any of this was going on. And I think that this is so real for many women in abusive relationships. You told me that when you guys met it was a safe and healthy relationship that changed. Can you talk about the beginning days of your relationship and how it started? Nora: You weren’t the only one that didn’t know, and that was probably part of the problem. When we first started dating he was a really nice boy. We started dating right when I turned 16, and he respected that I wanted to wait until I was 16 to start dating. We dated for almost 3 years. The first year was amazing. He treated me really well. I don’t know what happened but there was definitely a switch in his demeanor. It was probably more gradual which is probably why it was hard to miss. But as time went on there was definitely a shift in his personality. I didn’t see it then, but now looking back I can definitely see that the guy I dated wasn’t the one I broke up with. And that was hard at first. You still love them. You love them a lot, and I felt like as the relationship progressed, it just became more abusive, mentally and sexually abusive. And it was not good. But nobody knew. And I definitely felt super alone. Mady: At what point did you start to realize? I know what it’s like when you’re in a relationship and you’re head over heels and maybe he does a few things that are not awesome, but you love them and you realize you’re not perfect either. So when did you start to actually start to recognize that it was an abusive relationship. Nora: I don’t think the thought of it being abusive even crossed my mind until after. There were moments where I thought - hey that’s not right. Or I don’t feel comfortable with that but I guess he loves me. But I don’t think I even labeled it as abusive until after we broke up and I got away from it. Then I took a step back and looked at why it was so hard breaking up and what was actually going on. Mady: Did you have anyone you could talk to about it at the time? Nora: I definitely had people I could talk to but I think that was one of the flags. If there was anything that I did recognize while we were dating, it was that he pulled me away from the activities I loved. And it wasn’t until afterwards that he also pulled me away from my friends and family. It would just be simple things. I mean we were in high school, but he’d be like “Oh I don’t like this friend of yours or that friend can we go sit somewhere else.” Just super simple and subtle things. But I realized when things did get hard that people would have been there for me in a heartbeat, but I didn’t feel like I had anybody. I felt super alone. That’s one of the things I would have changed. Mady: Tell me if this is not how you were feeling. But while you were talking I was thinking about those little things that he would do, and how you didn’t realize they were manipulative at the time but things that you went along with because you loved him and you guys were happy. I know for myself that being likeable and agreeable and being pleasant is this huge part of my identity because I wanted to be liked and felt like that was really important. While I wouldn’t even say it was a confidence issue - I could have stood up to people if I needed to, but I didn’t feel like I needed to. I was getting what I wanted by going along with them. Does that make sense? Nora: Yes. I love the end of what you just said. You didn’t even feel like you needed to stand up for yourself. I feel like I have, and had, the confidence that I would have needed to stand up, but it’s in my demeanor to make it work. There are things that I saw, but I wanted to make it work. I felt like it was good enough for me. I wanted to make it work and make him feel loved. But ya definitely the demeanor of wanting to make it work and be agreeable led me to compromise certain things. I think that also affected me not being able to see that it was happening so gradually. Mady: Are there things, I’m sure this is hard to pinpoint, but are there things that you can see now that were really small and gradual things that you can pinpoint that were red flags that you can help others identify in their own relationships? Nora: I think one of the biggest things which I kind of recognized at the time and definitely later on was that his passions and goals came before mine. I would always ask like - what times are you trying to get in swimming? And asking about his goals. But looking back I don’t think he ever thought about mine. I think that was a big problem. I was involved in a few different things that I loved. I loved doing rodeo and 4h and raising pigs and playing piano. I would go to rodeo practice, and I had made the Reno rodeo flag team. I was really excited and it was a big deal. Over 100 people tried out and I was one of the new 30 that made it and I was super excited. And I remember this one. This was one of the times that I was like wait - what the heck? I told him and he said, “Oh, how many practices do they have?” Not excited at all. Just, how much time away from me is that going to be? You never have time for me already. Then would I would go to all of these activities I wouldn’t be excited to be there. Even though it wasn’t a good relationship, the only thing iw anted to do was to be with him and make him happy. Mady: When those kinds of things would happen did you feel like you could have successful communication with him when you would bring it up? Or was that not possible? Nora: It was difficult. We were super good at communicating at the beginning. We came from different backgrounds and we were good about communicating our goals and what we wanted in the beginning. But that’s one of the things that there was just a time when we went different directions and it got more challenging to communicate. Mady: I’m thinking about how scary it would be. I’m thinking about my relationship with my husband and how I feel almost indebted to him as his spouse because of everything we’ve been through. And if suddenly that were to shift I feel like I would have the desire to stay with him and help him work through whatever was causing the shift. Now that you can see the whole picture because you’re out of it, how would you have done things differently? Nora: The one thing that helped me was that I had an end goal. Fairly early on I knew deep inside that it wasn’t going to work, and I tried to push it away. But once it got too far and I didn’t feel like I could get away, moving away for college was the thing that could get me away. I just had an end goal and I had a picture of what I wanted my life to look like and he wasn’t fitting into it. I think being stubborn in what you want - I wish I had been more stubborn in what I wanted. And evaluate and communicate. I wish I’d communicated what I wanted. I remember telling him I wasn’t happy and I didn’t think our relationship was doing well, and I think that’s when I started to see a little bit of a personality shift. But even then I didn’t see it too much until afterwards. But that would make him mad, he would just get angry dismiss what I was saying. Like what are you talking about we’re fine. Now I look at Karl and I and we’re constantly evaluating the good and the bad and what we want to improve and the goals we had together. We didn’t have any goals together which I think was a big part of it. I wish I’d evaluated the relationship earlier. I think another thing that people don’t like to say is that when you’re dating it’s okay to be selfish. I think it kind of shifts once you get married and you become a partnership. But when you’re dating you can think “Is this serving me? Is this good for me? What am I getting out of this relationship?” If the answer is “nothing” or “not exactly what I want” then it’s a good indicator that it’s not worth continuing. Mady: I love that. I’ve never heard it put that way before. I’m just picturing being a teenage girl and there’s a lot going on, and how if I had had that attitude of “how does this help me? What are my goals outside of this relationship?” and having a more instrospective approach to dating rather than a holistic approach where you’re also doing what’s best for your partner when they maybe don’t deserve it. That was well said. Nora: The biggest thing I would do differently is just “have the courage to do it.” Whether that means break up or make it work. If you feel like you’re in an abusive relationship then just have the courage. People will be so willing and will be there to help. If I had told people what was going on they would have been there to help and I wouldn’t have been alone. It would have been hard still. It’s not going to be easy. Mady: You’re saying it would be hard to open up which is totally true - but what you’re going through was also very hard. So if you can take the perspective of it’s going to be hard to end this or it’s going to be hard to open up to my mom and have the conversation that you’re being abused which is also very hard - but is it harder than the emotional trauma that is being inflicted on you and the depression and anxiety while you stay in this relationship? Is what you’re Nora: Exactly. I think the courage to stay away when you break up is huge too. You feel like you need them and you have nothing else. So either by finding a group that’s super supportive or forcing yourself to tell just one person so they can remind you why you left and why you shouldn’t go out. They’ll help reset you. It’s good to lean on people when it’s hard. Mady: I think that’s smart. There is a lot of maniupation that goes on in an abusive relationship. And like you were saying about not know what thoughts are your own or are from others. And you’re changed through the situation sometimes to put your partners needs in front of your own. So if you have a third party person who hasn’t experienced your situation, they’ll be way more able to help you see through what’s going on until you’re healed and all the way out. Nora: You feel so insecure too. You don’t have confidence to do it and pursue what you want even though there is still a part of you that still knows which is why having that end goal is so important too. Mady: I’ll include the phone number for the National Domestic Abuse Hotline in the shownotes. When you were out of the relationship did you find a group? Or was it a person? Nora: It was very gradual for me. It took several months. It was interesting because - and this isn’t the case for everyone - but I dated several people in those months and then Karl was the first person I told. It was pretty early on, and I don’t know why. but I have this thing to tell you, and then I told him everything. It was partly because I was getting threatening phone calls and all sorts of crazy things, and he was like who is that calling you? And he was just there to support. I wish I would have gone sooner to get help from a more professional group. I still haven’t gotten professional help for it and it can be hard. I’ve also looked for groups but they haven’t been a good fit for me. So I don’t have the answer but I’ve heard from people that I should keep trying to find groups that work for me. Because sometimes I’ll still have horrible flashbacks and I’ll just cry and shake. And that’s a sign that I should get help but it’s hard when you don’t feel like anyone gets it or the organization is exactly what you need. Mady: So Karl’s been the most supportive part of the healing process then? Nora: Ya he’s been very supportive. I felt very guilty because I’d had sex before marriage and I didn’t feel as worthy and like I could never be me again - which isn’t true - but I just felt that way. And he was the one that pushed me to get help and talk to people. I at that point hadn’t even talked to my parents about it. I ended up going to a church leader which helped a lot. It helped with the spiritual side of it to be reassured that I wasn’t a horrible person. Mady: It’s crazy to me that so many people are still using that metaphor to teach about sexuality - like the flower getting crumpled or the gum getting chewed. And this isn’t something that men get. I saw a funny picture on instagram of a big sausage and it was titled the virgin penis, and then it was a picture of a shriveled up little sausage about ⅓ the size, and it was title the penis after first sexual intercourse. It feels absurd to use that example, but for whatever reason a woman not being a virgin when she gets married is still a big deal. It’s a myth that’s been perpetuated for millennia and I don’t know why it’s still in place. Nora: I worried that people wouldn’t want to marry me. It was 2018 and I was having those thoughts. Mady: Of everything you were dealing with, that is not something you should have had to deal with. The trauma should have ended there and not been perpetuated by societal influences telling you you’re not pure anymore. That drives me nuts. Mady: You’ve also had experience with anxiety and depression as well. Was that during this time of being in an abusive relationship? Nora: It’s actually not. It was probably a year after. I had been dating Karl for almost a year - maybe a little less than a year. Now I’ve read a lot about it and that’s when a lot of the problems start happening; once you feel secure and are in a good relationship. It was partially due to medication. I had been on a migraine medication and went off of it, and I couldn’t sympathize with people who had anxiety or depression before this, but when I tapered off this medication due to my doctor’s advice I had panic attacks. That’s when it was the worst. And it was when I was trying to fix myself and be better and more confident. But I would just shake and it would happen every night. I would hyperventilate and it would last a few minutes. It was less depression and more anxiety. Mady: What did you do when this started happening? Nora: I was frustrated because I didn’t want to link it to the medication. I feel like some of it was me because of what I was going through, but also some of it was the medication. But I just got so frustrated feeling like it was from going off medication. I thought it was just me off of medication. I’ve been on this migraine medicine which was also anti-depression medication and I had been on it since I was 8. And so I had been taking 75 mg before we tapered it off, and after I started having panic attacks I went back up to 10 mg which has been sufficient. And I was really hesitant because I needed those 10 mg to maintain mental stability, and I was like maybe this is just me off of the medication. But I’ve realized it’s okay to need medication. These drugs can be people’s miracles. So I was on the small dose just to maintain until this last January when we started trying to get pregnant. Mady: Being someone who has experienced panic attacks and anxiety, do you have advice for people trying to help loved ones with anxiety and panic attacks? Nora: I hadn’t ever experienced it growing up so I didn’t have the tools to deal with it. When they would happen Karl wanted to be right there to help but I felt so claustrophoic and couldn’t be touched. I feel for people who experience that all the time but haven’t found something that helps. I only had this for 3 weeks before figuring out the medicine, but that time was so influential. But I would just push him away and he wanted nothing more than to hug me and make it better. But he was really patient and I think that was the biggest part for me. He was patient in the healing from the abusive relationship too. I was so insecure with little things. I didn’t even realize I had them they would just come up. We had each other’s best interests in mind so he knew how to help me what I needed. Mady: It sounds like you guys already had a sufficient line of communication open. Nora: Good communication helped a lot. It sounds so simple but it can be such a hard thing. When I was having the panic attacks I didn’t understand what I was feeling. So to be able to communicate it was really hard. Mady: Sounds like Karl was trying to do the right thing. Nora: He was the one that made me go see all the doctors. I didn’t think I needed help. Mady: I think that’s so true for a lot of people who don’t think they have a reason to go see the doctor, but it can change everything. Nora: Mm-hmm Mady: So we don’t have a ton of time left, but you had a crazy IUD experience! When I first needed to get on birth control I didn’t know hardly anything about the options and I think the more you know about it the better off you’ll be finding what works for you. Like my sister for example had a terrible experience with her pill and it had really adverse side effects. Would you mind sharing your experience? Nora: I chose the IUD because it had low hormones and I didn't want to have to think about it every day. And honestly I think I would get it again but I would go to a different doctor who listens to me. It was great for about a year, but then early on I started feeling a pinching pain and I webMD-ed it and it didn’t sound like it was possible. So I went to the doctor and she said the strings were in place so it was probably fine. Then 5 months later I had a huge cyst burst. We were hiking and I didn’t know it burst I just felt out of shape. We hiked to the top really quickly and I felt horrible and I was so sick. Search and Rescue had to come. I was throwing up, I couldn’t stand. They said it was altitude sickness so I was like, “ok”. I didn’t go to the doctor right away, but 2 weeks later I just didn’t feel right. So I went back in and asked if I had a cyst burst or if my IUD moved - because I’ve had cysts before. She said no it looked fine and the pain would be unbearable if something was wrong. But I got an ultrasound anyways and they verified a cyst popped. 2 months later I still had the pinching pain and was convinced that something was wrong and no one was listening to me. So it had been about 2 years with the IUD at this point. So I went in again and the doctor said she could feel the strings so it was fine. So I asked about the pain and the doctor said it was my decisions. So Karl was in there with me and we actually prayed about it which I don’t usually do for medical decisions. I just take the doctor’s advice. But that wasn’t working. So we decided to take it out. So we had it taken out and Karl said, “I’ve seen car parts that look better than that.” It was all mangled and twisted up. Mady: You went to the doctor quite a few times, and they kept telling you you were fine because the string was there. If other women experience this pinching pain and go to the doctor and the doctor says the strings are there, you’re fine, can they have the doctor remove it to check and then put it back in? Nora: That’s what I was going to do initially. Often times the insurance will cover it if the IUD is causing pain - even if it’s not misplaced. That is an option. Mady: So if you’re listening - and you’re experiencing pain with your IUD, your doctor can remove it and put it back in to check just in case it’s not fine. Mady: I had mine in for less than a year when I had mine removed. I was spotting every single day, and they said it takes up to 6 months to regulate. So at 7 months when it still spotting I thought okay it’s close to 6 months. No problem. But then it never stopped. So I finally got it removed! Mady: Ok last question. What is your relationship with the word feminism now? Nora: I really like it. I love your definition - or the real definition I guess - the freedom to choose. As I was preparing different ideas of what I would say and things we might talk about I think it can be so good and positive and empowering. It doesn’t have to tear men down, it can build women up and elevate men at the same time. It doesn’t have to be people in protests or doing crazy stuff. It’s just the freedom to choose. Mady: I love it. The more I learn about feminism the more I see that yes there is text book feminism that is scholarly and research filled and philosophy - but to me feminism is intersectional. It includes everybody. Not just rich white women. It includes different sexual orientations, religions, ethnicities, whether they’re able bodied or disabled or whatever their body size is. It includes everybody and it’s been a way for me to be informed on social issues and be a part of the conversation on social issues. It’s been awesome. I’m so excited about today’s episode because I got to interview Nora Christensen, who is of my childhood friends. I’m currently living in Hawaii, and Nora’s husband had a conference in Honolulu back in March. So Nora and her husband Karl flew out here, and it was the first time I’ve been able to really catch up with Nora since high school. While we were updating each other on what’s going on in our lives’ right now, we got into some stuff that she is going through and overcoming and I was like - holy cow! I’ve got to have you on the show!! Some of the issues we talk about in this episode are marriage and wrestling with the idea of staying home versus working after you have kids, feminism and how misconstrued it gets and all the baggage that come with the word feminist, birth control, anxiety, and -trigger warning- we’ll be talking about sexual and emotional abuse within an intimate relationships. If that is something that is triggering to you, please stop listening about 30 minutes in to the episode. The exact time stamp of when that conversation starts will be in the show notes. I had a really awesome time talking with Nora, and I’m really excited to share our conversation with you. After we finished our interview, Nora and I kept talking for a while, and she told me that one of the greatest things that has come from her abusive relationship is getting to be there for others who are going through a similar situation. She’s a great resource. About 30% of women experience abuse from an intimate partner. That’s about 770 million women. If you or someone you know is in an abusive relationship, please seek help. If you’re experiencing any of the red flags Nora talked about, or even if you’re not sure but it just doesn’t feel right, please talk to someone. Like Nora said - she had so many people who would have been there for her, but they didn’t know she needed help. And if you want to discuss anything from today’s podcast, head on over to the Facebook page. You can find Nora there, and it’s a great way to connect with other women and find and give support.
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